denise: Image: Me, facing away from camera, on top of the Castel Sant'Angelo in Rome (me, standing outside a broken phone booth)Denise ([staff profile] denise) wrote in [site community profile] dw_news,
@ 2011-12-25 02:21 am UTC
  • Previous Entry
  • Add to Memories
  • Tell someone about this!
  • Next Entry
Hello, Dreamwidth! I come to you with an out-of-cycle news post to announce a super special end-of-year present to all y'all ... but while I've got you on the line, I might as well go through a few other things. Sorry, you're gonna have to wait for the good stuff ;)

Behind the cut:

* Development
* Dreamwidth 101
* Import delays
* Site stability
* Aid to the Philippines
* Holiday points bonus + paid account creation
* A request regarding official DW journal comments

... and ...

* HAPPY HOLIDAYS, DREAMWIDTH, HAVE A SHINY THING (soon)



Development



We start with the 8 Dec - 23 Dec code tour, done by [personal profile] ghoti and [personal profile] brainwane working together!

Most of the development on the list are backend bugfixes, new themes, theme bugfixes, fixes for the new Create Entries beta, and a few small frontend bug fixes and improvements. We've also added in a warning if you're trying to buy paid time for a deleted, purged, or suspended account, and a fix to remove entries from deleted journals from site search results immediately instead of waiting for the nightly search index.

(Speaking of themes: we're always looking for new themes and styles to be added to the existing choices. If you're a designer, or even if you just come up with something awesome for your own journal and want to offer it as a potential system theme, check out [site community profile] dreamscapes -- we offer bounties of Dreamwidth points for every theme and style that gets added.)

Some of these fixes are available on the live site, thanks to a few intermittent code pushes we've been doing throughout the week in order to tweak things for the GIANT INFLUX OF PEOPLE, oh my goodness, seriously, hi everybody! Which brings me to:


Dreamwidth 101



We're really happy to extend a Dreamwidth-style welcome-to-the-neighborhood to everyone who's joining us this week (and goodness, there are a lot of you all!) We have a Guide to Dreamwidth for LiveJournal users to help you find your feet.

A brief overview of some of the fun features we have that you may want to explore:

Finding stuff

* The Latest Things page, a feed of the public posts being made on the site. The tag cloud on top of the page contains the 100-most-used tags (calculated over the previous day's worth of posts, I believe), to help you find interesting content.

* We offer a site search option -- free users can search the entire site, paid users can search both the entire site and restrict the search to their own journal. (You can set your privacy settings for site search at the Privacy tab of Account Settings.) The search indexing runs at about a 12-hour delay, so content won't immediately show in the search results, but it's a fun way to find things -- or a useful way to come up with that one post you KNOW you read three weeks ago but can't remember where.

* For communities, [site community profile] dw_community_promo is a place for people to promote their communities. You can find lists of the most recently created and most recently active communities on the Communities page, and the Community Search will help you if you're looking for something in particular. If you're feeling lucky, you can check out a random active community. And in past news posts, we've done the Community Rec-O-Matic, where people ask for recommendations for communities that may interest them -- browsing those comments for suggestions might also help you find things. (Someone's running an unofficial round right now, but I don't want to overwhelm her personal journal by linking it here! We'll run one in the next news post, though -- I'd do it now, but I have a feeling the comments to this post are going to be full of people squeeing about the holiday present I'm totally teasing you by not mentioning yet.)


Display preference features

* On the Display tab of Account Settings, you can choose which style to automatically display entries and journals in, choosing from among the site skin, your own journal style, the "light mode" style designed to be more helpful for screenreader users and in low-bandwidth situations, or just defaulting to whatever is used for the journal in question. And once you've set that, you'll never need to add ?style=mine or ?style=light to the URL again -- but if you change your mind while you're looking at a page with the navigation strip enabled, the navstrip has an easy link to change the view with one click.

* Oh, and while I'm on the Display tab to talk about things, we've also got a Comment Hierarchy feature, which -- if enabled -- will add a numbered hierarchy to all the comments in your journal, making it clearer which comments are related to which. (I have a screenreader-using friend who says it took her eight years or so of using LJ and DW to figure out how sighted people were figuring out which comment was replying to which! Comment hierarchy is designed to help out screenreader and low-vision users, but it's proved surprisingly helpful for everybody else, too.)

Journal management features

* If you're like me and you wind up with eighty billion variations on the spelling of your tags, or only realize after a year and a half of using it that the keyword on your favorite icon is misspelled and suddenly it starts to drive you bonkers, you'll like these. The Manage Tags page will let you rename one tag to another tag or merge two tags together, and when you change an icon's keyword on the Edit Icons page, you'll be given an option to retroactively apply the change to all previous uses of the icons -- no more changing a keyword and having everything revert to default. (Unless you want it to.)

* Oh, and while I'm on the Edit Icons page: the icon upload form will let you upload multiple icons at once, instead of forcing you to do them one at a time, and you can also write a text description of what your icon looks like that will be read to screenreader users to help them get the sense of what the icon is. (You can see my icons for an example of how to describe your icons.)

* EDIT: HOW DID I FORGET THIS. On the Display tab of Manage Settings, you can set the URL of an entry in your journal to make "sticky" -- it will always appear on the top of the first page of your journal or community. No more messing around with forward dating if you want to have an introduction show up first!


Comment management features

If you've taken a look at the comments section of the entry page, you've probably noticed at least some of these!

* When you're viewing comments, there's a direct link to flat (chronological & unthreaded) mode and to view top-level comments (without also showing any replies) only.

* Paid users have an "expand all comments on page" link in that section, too, displayed once the comments begin to collapse.

* And you've probably already noticed that any non-threadstarting comment has a "thread from start" link at the bottom of the comment, which will bring you to the very top of the thread, no matter how deep in the thread the comment you were viewing is.

* Screened comments have also gotten an upgrade: replying to a screened comment doesn't unscreen it by default (although you can choose to unscreen it at the time you comment), and the person who made the screened comment you're replying to can see -- and answer -- your reply, allowing for entirely-screened comment conversations.

* And, finally, if you add ?comments=screened or ?comments=frozen to the URL of an entry page, you'll see only the screened or frozen comments. (That one, you do have to remember the URL parameters for -- but we'll put it on the page itself soon.)


...And, okay, this is a little thing, but I love it to death and it's been huge in how it's improved how I use the site: you can expand cut tags from your journal or from your reading page without having to load the entry in a separate page, by using the arrow next to the cut or the "expand all cuts" module that's available in the style system. I never knew I needed this so badly in my life until I had it.

Aside from the big ones mentioned in the migration guide, like the importer, the crossposter, and the split of 'friends' into 'I'm reading you' vs 'I want you to read my locked stuff', what other Dreamwidth features do people think newcomers should really know about? Sound off in the comments!



Import delays



As many people have noticed, our import queue is very, very busy right now. (At the time I'm writing, there are 958 jobs waiting to import entries, and 48 waiting to import comments -- and many of those entry imports will then go on to start a comment import once they're done with the entries.) At the rate we're processing imports, that's probably about two and a half days' worth of jobs to do -- meaning, if you started an import right now, it would probably take about two and a half days to complete. And, of course, more imports are being added to the queue as the ones already in the queue finish.

Mark's going to spend this week working on a few things that will hopefully improve the import process, allowing jobs to complete more quickly:

* better handling of the scheduling between entry imports and comment imports, to move jobs through the queue more efficiently, which will mean that your entry imports will complete much earlier than comment imports and comments will arrive up to a day or two later at times of peak load.

* optimization of the comment import process, since comment imports are the real bottleneck: they take more time, more processor power, and more database activity, so they're much slower to complete, especially if you have more than a hundred thousand or so comments to import.

In the meantime, we're asking everybody to be patient! Once you start an import job, you don't need to stay logged into your account or leave your computer running, and you can keep posting and commenting just the way you would otherwise. Just start the job and forget about it, and in a few days, your stuff will magically be moved in for you.

Think of it like how, during a cross-country move, the movers tell you to expect a three-day window for them to get there with your stuff and your furniture. We promise we'll be much more gentle with all the boxes marked 'fragile' than they generally are.

(It's not, unfortunately, something that throwing more hardware at can help much. I really wish it were! Most of the limitations have to do with database access speed and the speed at which we can access LiveJournal without being blocked for hitting the site too quickly. We can optimize the process on our end, and we'll be working on that, but there's a certain level past which you can't speed it up any more.)


Site stability



We've seen a lot of people asking us about whether or not Dreamwidth is capable of handling the increased traffic we're seeing this week, and we wanted to reassure you that everything's ticking along fine. The way we're set up, we're able to add additional server power very easily whenever we need it (we've already done that once this week, since we were very close to the point where we would need to even before the influx, and we're watching carefully to see whether we need to add more) and [staff profile] mark, our primary sysadmin, has years of experience in architecture and maintenance for high-performance web applications.

Of course there may always be periods where the site is temporarily slow, and (Flying Spaghetti Monster forbid) there's always the chance of a disaster -- although we do have disaster recovery and fallback procedures in place. But fear not, we watch site performance very carefully and do everything we can to keep things running smoothly.

Any site hiccups will be posted about in [site community profile] dw_maintenance, which is a very useful community you should keep on your reading page! We also use Twitter as a offsite status page in the event of site slowness or hiccups. We try to be really quick on updating both places, although sometimes we'll hit Twitter for a quick "working on it!" and save the [site community profile] dw_maintenance post for when one of us has a second to breathe.


Aid to the Philippines



As many of you know, Dreamwidth Employee #1, [staff profile] fu, is from the Philippines, which has recently experienced devastating flooding that has killed over a thousand people and left about half a million more without reliable access to food, shelter, and clean drinking water. Fu and her family are fine, but we'd like to encourage anyone who can to join us in donating to the relief efforts.

The Philippine Red Cross and UNICEF are both asking for donations to help the relief effort. Outside the Philippines, the United Nations Central Emergency Response Fund is also calling for aid.


Holiday points bonus + paid account creation



Last reminder, I promise, but I'm repeating it since we have so many newcomers to the neighborhood! For the remainder of 2011, all orders made in the Dreamwidth Shop will receive a 10% points bonus for future use. For instance, if you buy yourself a 12 month paid account (350 points), we'll give you 35 points to spend later once you complete your order. We're also donating 10% of our gross revenues for the month of December to the Ada Initiative, a nonprofit organization formed to help improve womens' participation in open technology and culture -- a cause that's so near and dear to our hearts that (full disclosure!) I volunteer my time on their board of directors.

Also, while I'm here: we've had a few people reporting problems with paying to create an account (rather than upgrading an account after they create it) while we have our open account creation for the rest of the year. This is a side-effect of invite codes being turned off -- usually, paying to create an account will give you an invite code that's preloaded with paid time to be applied when the code is used, and because you don't need a code to create an account, the process is skipping that step.

We've been too busy with other stuff to implement a bugfix for this, especially since we only do open account creation rarely, but the good news is, it's easily fixed. If this has happened to you, just submit a support request in the Account Payments category, while logged into the account that should've had the paid time applied to it. Include the account creation code that was emailed to you, and we'll make sure the paid time gets applied to your account. (If you don't still have the account creation code, just open a request and we'll ask you for some additional information to locate and verify your payment; Account Payments is a private, staff-only category.)

Finally, we've had many people ask us whether we can accept payments via PayPal. We can't, and not by our choice: last year, PayPal demanded that we censor our users' content as a condition of keeping our account with them open, and we chose upholding our Guiding Principles of free expression instead. Unfortunately, that means we can't accept PayPal for payments. We accept Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and American Express credit cards, Visa check/debit cards, Visa gift cards (Mastercard gift cards have a tendency to only work about 20% of the time), and check and money order in US dollars. If you can't make any of those work, we'll also take American Express travelers' checks (make an order to buy points in the amount of the traveler's check, then use the points over time) and cash in US funds if it makes it to us, although we don't recommend the cash because if it goes astray there's no way to trace it. And if all else fails, asking around will usually find you somebody who's willing to be your unofficial "PayPal proxy": you send them the money, and they use it to buy DW points with their credit card and transfer them to you.


A request regarding official DW journal comments



I've mentioned this in the comments to a few of our recent posts to [site community profile] dw_news and [site community profile] dw_maintenance, but I thought I'd also include it in a top-level section in this news update as well: we'd like to ask a personal favor of y'all.

As nearly everybody likely knows by now, the massive influx of new account creation and activity on Dreamwidth this week stems at least partially from a series of changes LiveJournal made to their product that a lot of people are unhappy about and/or have been personally harmed by, and from the dissatisfaction a lot of people have been feeling about the way the release process was handled. Without wanting to get into more of a discussion about the changes and the release process, we've noticed the beginnings of a trend that worries us in comments to [site community profile] dw_news and [site community profile] dw_maintenance, of people praising Dreamwidth by making negative comparisons to LJ or of people expressing their frustrations with LJ's actions.

The praise makes us feel good, of course, but the negative comparisons and the insults to LJ make us really sad, because no matter what decisions LJ's current management team make, the fact will never change that Dreamwidth literally could not exist without LJ. It was the ten years of LJ development, and the experience that [staff profile] mark and I gained in our years of working for LJ, that allow Dreamwidth to exist in the first place -- and we still have a lot of close friends and former coworkers working or volunteering for LJ as well who have been absolutely fabulous about working with us over time, especially during the past month so we could keep the crossposter and importer running through their Distributed Denial of Service attack mitigation. From the beginning, we've tried our best to be really clear that "Dreamwidth vs LiveJournal" doesn't have to be an adversarial relationship at all, and that just because the two sites are developing in different directions doesn't meant that one is better than the other (or that one or the other will be right for everybody -- the two sites are different, and different people will feel more comfortable on one or the other, and that's not only totally okay, it's actually what we had in mind from the beginning).

So, the favor we'd like to ask of y'all: please, when commenting in official DW journals, we'd like to ask you to keep your comments focused on DW itself, not on DW's actions as compared to LJ's actions or on LJ. We're not asking you to change what you're saying in your journals or in your communities! Just that in the official Dreamwidth communities, we'd like to focus on Dreamwidth's actions, benefits, and features in a positive way, and let us stand or fall on our own merits rather than in comparison to somebody else.

We're glad that we can offer a new home for people who aren't happy on LiveJournal anymore, and we're equally happy that LiveJournal can offer a home to people for whom Dreamwidth isn't the right answer. The work we've done to make Dreamwidth more interoperable with other sites (and the work we still have to do to advance those goals further!) is intended to make it so you don't have to lose your friends just because they use a different site than you do. We'd really like for the comments to official posts to maintain that same attitude of interoperability and respect for everybody's choices, so that nobody feels attacked for their choices (whatever those choices might be) just reading the comments for useful information.



And finally, what you've no doubt all been waiting for:


HAPPY HOLIDAYS, DREAMWIDTH, HAVE A SHINY THING (soon)



The increased traffic this week has prompted [staff profile] mark to speed up work on his current project, and we're pleased to pre-announce the introduction of community importing, coming next week. We know this is something a lot of people have been waiting for, so please read the rest of this section carefully!

To import a community, you'll need to be both the admin of the community on Dreamwidth that you're importing into, and the admin of the community on the remote site that you're importing from.

Like the personal journal import system, posts and comments from the remote site will still be controllable by the original poster; they will display as having been posted by the account on the remote site, using OpenID authentication, and anyone can sign in using their remote site's identity and continue to have the exact same amount of control over the posts.

Also like the personal journal import system, you can continue to use the community on Dreamwidth as much as you'd like while you're waiting for the import to finish. The system will pick up all posts and comments that were made to the community on the remote site up to the time when the job runs, but since we can't predict when a job will run and because communities are generally larger than personal journals (and therefore will take longer to import), if you intend to move entirely to Dreamwidth instead of maintaining mirrors on both sites and you want to be absolutely certain that you get everything, we recommend that you move the community activity to Dreamwidth first, then schedule the import and let your posts and comments follow you later. Or, you can do the import first, wait until you've confirmed your posts and comments have been moved, move the community activity, and then follow up with another import in a while once the backlog calms down a bit. (Doing a second import once you've already done one will not override anything: it just picks up anything new that was added on the remote site since your last import.)

And, finally, some slightly downer news: because of the traffic this will no doubt add to the import queue, and because (as mentioned above) the import queue is very, very backed up, we are restricting the use of the community import tool to paid accounts only for a limited time. We promise the feature will be available to everybody as soon as possible -- probably within a week or two, although if there's more demand than we were expecting, it may be longer -- but we're restricting it now in order to help manage some of the load. So, for right now, either the account doing the import or the community being imported into needs to be a paid, premium paid, or seed account.

We're also going to have to place a temporary restriction on imports from communities with lots of comments. (This is because the comment import process is more load than the entry import process.) When we release, if you try to import a community with more than 100,000 comments received, the system will cancel the comment import job (and only import your entries instead). We picked that number to be on the safe side. Again, we hope to be able to lift that restriction as soon as possible, and as soon as Mark has a chance to streamline the importer some more.

If your community has more than 100,000 comments received, or if you're willing to help save the queue a little and import entries only, fear not: you can import your entries now, and import your comments later. There won't be any duplication from importing again, and comments will automatically be put on the correct posts.

We'll tell you in a future [site community profile] dw_news post when we're able to lift these restrictions.

We were hoping to be able to release the feature tonight, but between the need for some last-minute troubleshooting and the fact that most of the DW team has family and holiday obligations that would slow us down on handling any problems that might crop up, we've decided it's better to delay a few days and make the feature public early next week. Keep an eye here on [site community profile] dw_news: we'll post again when it's ready for you to try out.


*

That's it for us for another news post! Because of the upcoming holidays, we'll likely be very in-and-out for the next few days -- all of our families do Christmas-ish stuff, and then of course there's New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. We'll be watching for any major issues, but non-time-sensitive issues will likely be a bit delayed! (Unless we're trying to hide from familial overload, in which case you might be seeing a lot of us.)

As always, if you're having problems with Dreamwidth, Support can help you; for notices of site problems and downtime, check the Twitter status page; if you've got an idea to make the site better, you can make a suggestion.

We'll see you in a few days for our next mini-update, and in the new year for our next full one.


EDIT 12/26 11:45pm EDT: Hey, guys, as a personal favor to me, before asking questions in the comments could you please try to read the existing comments? I know there are many, many comments to read through, but most of the questions I'm seeing now are repeats and duplicates, and there's only one of me to answer them all. Thanks. :)


(Read 780 comments) - (Post a new comment)
(Flat) (Top-level comments only)

g_shadowslayer: (Slytherin)


[personal profile] g_shadowslayer
2011-12-25 12:42 pm UTC (link)
Happy Holidays!

I am SO looking forward to that community import ability :D

A question for you -- will there be a permanent account sale any time soon? If not, that's fine - I've bought myself a premium account for 6 months and will be happy to renew at the end of that, but still curious and interested :D

(Reply to this)  (Thread


sophie: A cartoon-like representation of a girl standing on a hill, with brown hair, blue eyes, a flowery top, and blue skirt. ☀ (skype, sophie, weemee)


[personal profile] sophie
2011-12-25 04:40 pm UTC (link)
I'm not staff, but I can say that they don't have any plans to have a Seed account sale. The staff want to make Dreamwidth sustainable, and Seed accounts are actually pretty bad for that, since after the one-off payment there are no more payments coming from that account. (Of course, the person might pay for more accounts, but since that's not a certain thing, you can't rely on that happening.)

They're also bad for users, because once someone pays for a Seed account, that person then can't take their money back if they don't like the way DW is going. Someone with a Paid account, on the other hand, can choose to stop paying. Denise and Mark don't want people to feel like they don't have a voice.

There's only been two seed account sales in the life of the service - one was at the beginning of open beta, and the other was after a particularly rough patch lasting several months where DW couldn't take credit/debit card orders because PayPal and Google Checkout suspended their account because of an organised group of trolls who claimed DW was hosting child porn. (It wasn't, of course.) Because DW wasn't willing to acquiesce to their demands that those entries were removed, they had to find another merchant processor, and finding one which wouldn't give in to the trolls took a long time during which they couldn't take any orders online, so the seed account sale then was to restock the "war chest" to make sure DW had funds for anything similar happening in the future.

There's more info on the answer to the question of seed account sales happening again in the pre-launch Business FAQs, if you're interested in reading more.

Last edited 2011-12-25 04:43 pm UTC (Clarification.)

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


sara: *snerk* (*snerk*)


[personal profile] sara
2011-12-25 06:52 pm UTC (link)
They're also bad for users, because once someone pays for a Seed account, that person then can't take their money back if they don't like the way DW is going.

True, but we can cut DW from our holiday card list. Yeah, that'll show 'em.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent


denise: Image: Me, facing away from camera, on top of the Castel Sant'Angelo in Rome (me, standing outside a broken phone booth)


[staff profile] denise
2011-12-25 07:35 pm UTC (link)
Just to clarify a little more, the content PayPal was getting their knickers in a knot about was explicit fic with underage characters (which is still perfectly legal and not child pornography at all), but once they found that they started telling us we had to remove all adult user-generated content as it was reported to us.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


chichirinoda: (Tyki - No Fapping (Kidding!))


[personal profile] chichirinoda
2011-12-26 09:01 pm UTC (link)
*lawyer clarification* Legal in the US, though not everywhere. Fic like that would be child pornography in Canada, for example. Thankfully, you're probably safe from prosecution because your business is in the US.

And I do want to say thank you for standing up to bullies like PayPal.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


denise: Image: Me, facing away from camera, on top of the Castel Sant'Angelo in Rome (me, standing outside a broken phone booth)


[staff profile] denise
2011-12-27 12:39 am UTC (link)
Well, yeah. We're in the US, though, and so are our servers, so we use .us law :)

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent


aximili: (Animorphs: Rachel Lord of the Dance)


[personal profile] aximili
2011-12-25 08:55 pm UTC (link)
They're also bad for users, because once someone pays for a Seed account, that person then can't take their money back if they don't like the way DW is going.

Unless they're still spending money on aside from their own account, which is fairly common. I used to spend money on LiveJournal and InsaneJournal very regularly. InsaneJournal stopped as I don't use them anymore, LiveJournal I mostly have not gotten anything there since 2006 - definitely no more regular spending, because I don't agree with their business decisions.

And I've definitely been a far more regular spender on DW since getting a seed account compared to prior having one. (I try to gift paid time at least once a month.) But yeah, that's definitely not something to rely on and I'm all for the permanent accounts only being sold on an 'as-needed' basis. Offering them so regularly obviously wasn't that helpful to LJ and other LJ based websites.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


sophie: A cartoon-like representation of a girl standing on a hill, with brown hair, blue eyes, a flowery top, and blue skirt. ☀ (skype, sophie, weemee)


[personal profile] sophie
2011-12-25 10:12 pm UTC (link)
True, but the other side of that coin is that it's also a motivation for staff to keep doing what the users want them to do. If someone buys a Seed account, it would be very easy to write that person off as someone who'll never pay anything again, meaning there would be no need to worry about what they thought, because they just paid four years' worth of money. While I can't speak for them, I'm sure Denise and Mark don't ever want to feel themselves moving in that direction, and not selling Seed accounts except in times of emergency brings accountability to the table.

As it happens, the money from the Seed account sales is used as a reserve, in case it's needed. It's not money that's used in the day-to-day running of Dreamwidth, and IIRC it's enough for DW to survive for quite some time while fixing any problems that occur. (Such as with the incidents with PayPal and Google Checkout.) Once any problems are fixed and the cash flow is coming in again, operation of DW would go back to using the cash flow. It does mean, however, that the reserve is lower than it was previously. If it's too low, then that's the point at which they would look for ways to top it up again, which is why there was a second Seed account sale after that happened. The money from that sale went back into the reserve. :)

What I'm trying to say here is that the very business model of DW is such that day-to-day operation *depends* on having a steady source of income, which is, I believe, exactly how DW staff wants it.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


aximili: (Animorphs: Aximili Dance)


[personal profile] aximili
2011-12-26 02:41 am UTC (link)
Oh, I agreed with you on all points. (And I understand what the function was of the Seed accounts on DreamWidth.) And like I said, the regular sale of permanent accounts on InsaneJournal and LiveJournal is definitely a problem, over only doing it as when necessary (as you pointed out.) It's definitely better for permanent accounts to not be a source of expected income and instead relying on Paid/Premium accounts. I was just saying that a person with a permanent account can often be spending money on a site, just not on their own account.

Like most sites with any version of a permanent account I imagine DreamWidth has a pretty good idea of who does/doesn't spend money on the sites involved. Just, incidentally, the most often I get that argument, it's when people are trying to tell me I haven't paid for time on LJ in years and therefore my opinion is irrelevant. Last I checked the tab on how much I'd spent there, it was nearly $1k since 2004 (Permanent Account purchased 2005) even with me mostly refusing to spend money on them the last few years. Obviously if they were common or an expected form of income it wouldn't work, but we're not all complete slacks, either :P

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


lanterne_rouee: dreamsheep glowing like a radioactive lantern (dreamsheep lantern2)


[personal profile] lanterne_rouee
2011-12-27 05:09 pm UTC (link)
I'm sure you were just kidding (with the 'slacks' remark), but one of the many things I love about this place is that they've been very clear from the beginning that they don't look down on users who have free accounts (or otherwise aren't paying / paying anymore). Their participation is built into the business model, so everyone's valuable and welcome, and everyone's opinion matters. It's really awesome. :)

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


aximili: (Animorphs: Aximili Dance)


[personal profile] aximili
2011-12-27 05:38 pm UTC (link)
I wasn't kidding; I was quoting people I've heard from LiveJournal. And yeah, that's one reason I like DW ;) I was just making the point that while it's a smart business model, it's not to say that having a permanent account at any site has prevented me from voting with my dollar.

Last edited 2011-12-27 05:40 pm UTC

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


lanterne_rouee: pearl dreamsheep (dreamsheep pearl)


[personal profile] lanterne_rouee
2011-12-27 05:55 pm UTC (link)
I can totally believe that! lol That's one of the things I hated most there - the hyper-consciousness about who's paid what and when. Ugh.

And yes, I totally got your other point about still supporting the site. Very cool. I've done some sneaky gift of paid-time maneuvers myself, when I could. It's fun and they make it so easy here. :)

Happy New Year to ya!

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


aximili: (Animorphs: Aximili Dance)


[personal profile] aximili
2011-12-27 06:03 pm UTC (link)
LOL I have soooooo much fun with the 'gift a random user' feature. But yeah, on LiveJournal there's this huge idea that if you aren't paid, you have no voice, and if you're permanent you'll never have a voice ever because they can't get paid time out of you - which simply isn't true. In a way, it's cool because whenever I gift paid time it gives someone else a chance to test it out for a long period of time :P

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


lanterne_rouee: i believe in dreamwidth plus colored pencils (dw colored pencils)


[personal profile] lanterne_rouee
2011-12-27 08:09 pm UTC (link)
lol I like your style. :D

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


aximili: (Animorphs: Aximili Dance)


[personal profile] aximili
2011-12-27 10:35 pm UTC (link)
LOL I think it works in its own way. Potentially brings in more business in the future.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent


denise: Image: Me, facing away from camera, on top of the Castel Sant'Angelo in Rome (me, standing outside a broken phone booth)


[staff profile] denise
2011-12-25 07:33 pm UTC (link)
Sophie's explanation about why we don't offer permanent accounts regularly is a very good one! We designed our business model for the long haul, so permanent accounts are counter-productive for us. I'm sorry!

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


lethe1: (seasonal)


[personal profile] lethe1
2011-12-25 08:09 pm UTC (link)
Ow, now I actually feel bad about buying a seed account :/ Hope you'll forgive me! ;)

Anyway, I wanted to say that you guys are amazing! Happy holidays!

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


denise: Image: Me, facing away from camera, on top of the Castel Sant'Angelo in Rome (me, standing outside a broken phone booth)


[staff profile] denise
2011-12-25 08:17 pm UTC (link)
Hee, no, it's okay! When we sold them, we needed to sell them, and we made the conscious choice to sell them. But we don't plan on selling them again.

(Also, thanks for taking a gamble on us and buying one. *G*)

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent


sophie: A cartoon-like representation of a girl standing on a hill, with brown hair, blue eyes, a flowery top, and blue skirt. ☀ (skype, sophie, weemee)


[personal profile] sophie
2011-12-25 09:43 pm UTC (link)
You totally shouldn't feel bad about buying a seed account! The seed accounts were limited in number, so there was only a certain amount that could be bought anyway. You buying one didn't increase the number of seed accounts that were sold, so the only thing that really makes a difference is that whether the seed account holder actually uses it. And given that they were sold for $200, it's a good chance that everybody who bought one is using the hell out of it. :D

Don't worry, they figured all this into their numbers, and that's how they calculated how many seed accounts they could sell. :)

Last edited 2011-12-25 09:43 pm UTC (Typo!)

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread


parhelion: Archie Goodwin/meganbmoore (Archie-gun)


[personal profile] parhelion
2011-12-26 12:55 am UTC (link)
Well, I for one, am using the hell out of my seed account, at least by my standards. *g* I also try to buy a lump of points every so often -- and thanks for the reminder -- since I believe responsive retailers deserve responsive consumers.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent


g_shadowslayer: (PoI - Snow + Coffee)


[personal profile] g_shadowslayer
2011-12-26 02:50 am UTC (link)
That makes sense - thanks for answering. I totally understand all the reasons (and believe me, I'm suffering some of them by being a permanent account holder on LJ...)

Main reason I wanted to check was to see whether I should keep renewing the paid one or wait for a sale. Now that I know, I'll happily renew the paid one.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent



(Read 780 comments) - (Post a new comment)
(Flat) (Top-level comments only)